Bela Fleck is an American banjo player who has brought his instrument to entirely new audiences. He not only embraced Bluegrass in his early career, he has expanded in jazz and classical music as a composer and performer, bringing the vast array of sounds and styles that the banjo can produce, to listeners who may have never considered that the banjo was an instrument that would speak to them. Acoustic Review’s Andy Hughes enjoyed an extended conversation with Bela at his Bela’s Mississippi home, where he talked about his deep love for all things banjo.
I was intrigued to discover that your inspiration to play the banjo came from hearing the theme tune to The Beverly Hillbillies. It used to run on British television, I guess it’s on re-runs in the United States. Were you intrigued by the sound of the banjo, enough to think about exploring the idea of playing?
It was more of a visceral reaction. I heard it and I though, woah, I really like that! I wasn’t a folk music fan, or a country music fan by any means, I grew up in New York City, so there was no connection really with that sound. I just heard it and was captured instantly. That piece was played by Earl Scruggs, who really popularised the three-finger style of playing. Not because he was the first person to do it, but because he was the best who ever lived. Not only was he one of the earliest pioneers of banjo music, he is still one of the best who has ever played, better than anyone, including me. When Earl Scruggs plays the banjo, he activates the interest of people who are Banjo People, they just don’t know it yet, and I am absolutely one of those. His sound pulls in people from everywhere, from Japan, from the Czech Republic, from Italy, just from anywhere. When I talk to my friends from around the world who are professional banjo players, they almost all have an ‘Earl Moment’ when they discovered his playing. The interesting thing is, the majority of people are not from the southern United States, so it’s not that connection that pulls them in.
You have studied the banjo on a much deeper level than the average casual player will have done, what have you learned?
Well, the first thing I discovered is that the banjo is not an American instrument, it’s actually an African instrument, and its earliest versions were played in all kinds of different settings, orchestral, classical, and it was used to accompany the popular music of the day. And all this was way before Earl Scruggs was a musician. It’s odd to think how the banjo has been cast as this definitively white Southern American instrument, when in fact it’s one of the most global instruments there is. I would add to that, that Bluegrass, as played by Earl and his contemporaries, is one of the great genres of World Music, it just happens to come from America. It does have a wider history than simply Bluegrass, as wonderful as that particular style of music is. It has its African roots, and it came to America with the slaves brought over here, before the guitar, the banjo was the instrument that people carried with them. Women played the banjo as well back in those days, a well-bred woman would have a banjo and play it in the parlour.
Most young men who are interested in playing an instrument, tend to go for the guitar, because that’s the most popular instrument to play, but you went for the banjo instead, I’m intrigued as to why you chose it, rather than the guitar, or did you like the guitar as well?
I did like the guitar growing up. Of course, when I first heard the banjo in the television, I didn’t see it, it was just playing over a film sequence, so I just knew I loved the sound of it, but I had no idea what it looked like. So yes, I did start by learning the guitar, I learned Beatles songs, as everyone did. I learned the folk songs and pop songs of the sixties, when I was growing up, and some of those songs were pretty good.
What was your first banjo?
My grandfather bought me a banjo, which he found at a garage sale. He figured that since I enjoyed the guitar, I might like the banjo as well. The truth is, I don’t think I would ever have got the nerve up to buy a banjo because I didn’t think I could ever play it. I wasn’t sure how anyone managed to play it! So, I was taking guitar lessons to attempt to progress with the guitar, but I really wasn’t very fired up by it. But when I started high school when I was fifteen, I was a different person with a banjo. It wasn’t like, it’s OK and I play it from time to time, I was unable to put it down, and I wouldn’t put it down. I took it to school with me, I played between classes, I played all through lunch, I would sit in stairwells to get some privacy to practice. And by the time I finished high school, I was ready to play at a semi-professional level, and I started to play in bands, usually progressive Bluegrass bands, because they suited my style, and allowed me to hone my craft. And then I explored various different musical forms I could work with.
When I talk to professional musicians, they almost always tell how they started of learning on a really old and difficult instrument, with terrible action, and when they got a decent instrument, it was a revelation, of how much easier their instrument was to play if you have a decent model.
Absolutely. I always say to people, one way to instantly become a better musician, is to get a better instrument. It’s not fair, for people who can’t afford that, but it’s still true. So, I got this old banjo that had been painted black, and I learned to start playing on it. Sometimes people come to me and say they are struggling with their banjo, they show the banjo to me, and I tell them, you can’t learn properly on this instrument, it’s much too hard to play properly, the action is far too high, get a better instrument, or get someone to work on this one to improve the way you play. If not, you are only going to hurt your fingers, and you will end up hating it, and giving up. But of course, you don’t know that when you start, because you have nothing to compare.
But you were fortunate to be able to get a better banjo, and move on.
I was, when I started playing in bands, I was able to get a better instrument, because this was the end of the Folk boom in New York City, there were a lot of banjos around in the instrument shops, so within a year I could get an inexpensive upgrade, which helped a lot. I also discovered the older banjos, the pre-war Gibson Mastertones that are so prized by players today, with very good reason, and I’ve been playing vintage banjos since the early ‘80’s.
Are you a collector, or do you have a cherished two or three banjos and stick with those?
I have a cherished … hundred or so! I have somewhere between eighty and a hundred-and-fifty, I’m honestly not sure exactly how many I have.
What makes you buy so many instruments? Are you looking for an elusive sound and tone, or do you just like having a lot of banjos to choose from?
When I started, I was looking for a better sound, because Gibson made a lot of models in their Mastertone Series in the 1920’s through to the very early 1940’s. I was curious to know how the different models sounded, what was a gold one like, or one with a mahogany neck, or a maple neck. I didn’t realise that the first one I got for myself, which was fitted with a mahogany neck, was made by a very famous luthier named John Monteleone, who used to build old jazz guitars and mandolins. He made me a gorgeous neck for my banjo, and the combination with the neck he made, and the pot, the drum part of the banjo, is perfect, and I still play it today. So, although I have never found a better sounding banjo, I still wanted to know what the other models sounded like, hence the collection.
Are they valuable instruments?
They are, yes. When I got my first one, they were pretty rare even then, it was hard to even find one, much less one for sale. And because no-one is making them anymore, their financial worth only increases as time passes, so I would snag any that came up, and of course they appreciate in value as time goes on. It’s a standard investment, they say invest in what you know, so some of them are much more valuable now, and some of them are worth less than I paid for them. But I love them, it’s very hard for me to talk away from a vintage banjo that’s available, so there is a considerable number of them collected in my basement,
Do you play many of the banjos in your collection?
Oh yes. When I am recording, I will think that this song would work with this particular model, or that particular sound, and I will fetch them up ad use them in the studio. I can’t carry them all around, but I can certainly get them out and use them in the studio. They are an investment, and a working tool for my job, and I love having them, so it’s great.
I heard from a musician that the best way to sneak a new guitar into the house is to take an empty case out, ad put your new guitar in, and then your wife won’t know you’ve bought yet another of those damned guitars! But you don’t need to do that, because your wife Abigail is a player as well, so I am sure she totally understands your desire to collect banjos.
Absolutely. I knew I had found my true-life partner, when I was shopping around in upstate New York, and I rang my wife and told her that I had found a wonderful vintage bass banjo, and she said, don’t come home without it! I know she would like me to get rid of about half the collection, the ones I don’t have a deep personal collection with, and she’s right, I don’t want to leave her with a big mess when I finally kick the bucket.
I’m fascinated with the variety of musical styles you have embraced in your career Bela. You started with banjo, and then moved into jazz with (bassist and drummer) Victor and Roy Wooton, in your jazz collaboration The Flecktones. I was wondering if the two disparate styles require different technical skills to play them?
I don’t think they are as far apart and as different as some musical styles, they are both innovative genres. I have heard people say that Bluegrass and Jazz are ‘kissing cousins’. And someone said, Bluegrass is jazz for the harmonically impaired (laughs). Bluegrass has become far more harmonically diverse in the last twenty years or so. I know what they are getting at, and I think it’s funny. But people like The Punch Brothers, Edgar Meyer, myself, have all been pushing Bluegrass and trying to make it musically relevant to today. And there are also artists who are keen to maintain the traditions of Bluegrass, and I’m fine with that as well. But being from New York City, it didn’t make sense for me to be a hard-line traditionalist, that’s not where I come from.
You have written concertos with other artists, what was the inspiration behind those, are you a curious musician?
I am, and I am always looking for ways to explore new avenues in music that will excite me. I have written with Edgar Meyer, Edgar is a wonderful composer, and we have been pals together since our early twenties. I watched Edgar with his first concerto, and decided that I would like to try something like that. It’s not like writing a series of tunes, I do that all the time, it’s writing one piece and working on it for months, writing orchestral parts and counter-melodies for it. You end up with something very different. And I have found that there are ideas that you can only realise with improvisation, and other ideas that you can only realise with composition , and that takes a lot of time and experimentation with time signatures, keys, techniques, and so on.
When you compose, do you find yourself slipping into tried and trusted ways of writing, or do you try and stretch yourself and reach into new areas of playing?
Well, when I compose, I start out with the notes that I can hear, and that I want to play, and the nearer it gets to either recording what I am writing, or playing it on stage, I start making brutal concessions to reality! That happened when I started playing Rhapsody In Blue, I wrote a banjo part that was really close to the piano part in the original composition, and I found that it was physically impossible to play it, and I was hurting myself trying. In fact I was running the risk of injuring myself to a point where I would be unable to play again, ever. So, I simplified it right down, and it became a great piece to play for banjo and orchestra. I pulled in some of the banjo techniques I had learned over the years. It is still Rhapsody In Blue and it does follow the piano part closely, but it is manageable. There is no point trying to play something that is simply not possible. I just want it to sound good for the audiences that hear it.
What advice would you have to someone reading this who is looking to start learning the play the banjo. Do you think lessons are the best way to learn?
I do think that there is something really special about sitting opposite someone who can play well, and show you want good technique looks and sounds like. And if your teacher can play you something really awesome, not to intimidate you, but to show you what you are aiming for and working towards, I think that is really good. When my teacher did it, I was inspired to work really hard to be able to play like that as well. Everyone works differently, but you have to be willing to put in the work, and get the techniques you need to be able to play the best that you can. You need to be the musician you are, some people pick thigs up easily, some need to work on it. Some are hard rhythmic stylists, some are gentle, you just need to find the style that you are comfortable playing, and go with that.
What about choosing your first instrument, is there a way to find the best banjo for a beginner?
It’s no use at all having a cool old vintage banjo that you think is wonderful, when the action is not set up right, and the neck is warped, and the strings need to be changed, and it’s actually something you can’t play. I think you should look for a good name, and see if they do Starter models. Someone like Deering or Gold Tone, their Starter models are really good, when you get one it will be set up right, and it will sound good, and then you need to work on out how seriously you want to progress, and then look at getting something more expensive when you know you are going to be a player for some time.
Are there any musicians you would love to work with that you haven’t collaborated with yet?
Oh yeah, loads of them, lots of jazz musicians. Herbie Hancock and Pat Metheny, I love Chris Potter’s horn playing, I love Terence Blanchard’s trumpet playing, I love Hilary Hahn’s violin playing, there are a lot of musicians I admire that would be great to work with some time. But I don’t have to play with them personally to admire them and love what they do. It’s not like when you start out, and you are looking for notches on your gun – I played with this guy, and I played with that guy, it’s about being comfortable with yourself and your own work. I’m comfortable that I may never get to play with some of those musicians, but I’ve had my share of great players to work with in my career.
Is there a specific album that people should check out of they want a sample of your work, if they don’t know you yet?
I think it depends on the type of music they like. If they like Bluegrass, then I’d suggest the Drive album which I released in 1987. I didn’t realise when I made it what a special moment it was, and what a special record it would turn out to be for me. If you like Jazz, then have a listen to the first Flecktones album, and there is a whole series following that to check out as well. And if Classical is your taste, then try the Perpetual Motion album is interpretations of classical pieces, Beethoven, Paganini, Bach, and so on.
Do you still need to practice a lot to keep your technical skills fresh?
Well, if I come back from a tour, and I’ve been away for three weeks, it’s time to be home and be a parent, and I don’t get to play my instrument as often, and if I have a big gig or another tour coming, then I have to practice to get ready. I find I need to practice more in my late fifties, than I did in my early forties, but I accept that, it’s part of the process of being a musician.
What are the different playing techniques that you use?
Well, there are three basic styles that you have to master to play the style of banjo that I play. There’s the rippling rolling technique that Earl Scruggs played, there is a ‘guitar’ style, instead of using a pick, you go down the scale with your thumb, and up with your index finger, and you can play like a jazz musician or a classical musician. And there is a melodic style, where you create rolling patterns out of scales, using all the open strings. You can do that on classical guitar, but it’s musical gold on a banjo. If you can master those three techniques, you can usually figure out solutions to most musical problems, either with composing or improvising. You can’t do it with just one or two, you need all three.
Did it take you long to master those techniques?
It depends what you mean by mastering them. I was using them when I was in my second year of playing, but that doesn’t mean I was using them well. Techniques constantly evolve and develop as you learn more. Learning timing and phrasing, and so on, takes years, and you are always developing as you go, you can never say, that’s it, nothing more to learn. There is always something new to learn.
Bela Fleck will be appearing at the Celtic Connections Festival on 31 January 2026. Tickets are available from the website.
ANDY HUGHES
